People are insane. Mild Politics.

"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain) 06/19/2020 at 02:00 • Filed to: None

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Buffer photo. Actually, not really much buffing. Just a clay bar and hybrid ceramic spray wax today.

Twice in 2 days I’ve come across people from the far left who simply get to a point in a discussion where they can no longer accept facts and they just kind of twitch out because their sense of logic can’t reconcile the data in front of them with their world view.

Instance 1: “See. Your president is a damn Nazi. Do you read people? My Jewish people who actually vote for this monster, do you read these articles or is Fox for you? Do not support this trash antisemite, racist.”

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If the above quote is your world view, then the image below is a Nazi dog whistle.

Here’s the problem: Occam’s Razor. Read the ad. It’s an arrow pointing you down from the Call to Action to the CTA box at the bottom of the Facebook ad.

Also, it IS an emoji. It’s available on IOS.

Now, you could believe that “Ahah! But that’s there’s a DOUBLE MEANING!”. But let me ask you this question: Are they a bunch of dumb fucks or are they brilliant Nazi masterminds? Because they can’t really be both. Now consider that you’re reading a post that was clearly written by a social media intern or a contractor at an outside agency. Again, Occam’s Razor. Probably just a shitty post.

When we get here, this is the reaction:

So I guess critical thinking supports Trump. Which makes me a Trump supporter (I didn’t vote for him, probably won’t this time either, and would much rather see !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ).

Instance 2: The number of people who took this to mean “the president thinks we should stop testing” is astounding.

Krista here got close but she too failed at the last moment to grasp what the president was saying. Very close, Krista. SO CLOSE.

This is the actual quote:

Again, our testing is so far advanced. It’s so much bigger and better than any other country, that we’re going to have more cases. We’re always going to have more cases. And as I said this morning, that’s probably the downside of having good testing is you find a lot of cases that other countries, who don’t even test, don’t have. If you don’t test, you don’t have any cases. If we stopped testing right now, we’d have very few cases, if any.

Now here’s the thing: He did misspeak. He should have said “reported cases” and not just cases. But if these people can decipher Joe Biden, then they shouldave no problem figuring out the meaning of that quote.

But never let facts get in the way of a good argument.

Terrible, huh? I mean, per capita we’re 13th out of more than 140 countries.

I guess if you’re annoyed that we’re getting beat in that statistic by some smaller countries, that could confirm you one way or another.

But the US is the 3rd most populous country in the world. So what does that look like in terms of raw numbers? (Final column is total tests)

It looks like “It’s so much bigger and better than any other country”. But this is the “what color is that dress problem”. If you’re predisposed one way or another and you spend all your time on Facebook / NPR, then it’s easy to think that we’re really far behind and are doing a shit job at everything.

So what of Henry and Jackie? When faced with spreadsheets, statistics, and a serious challenge to defend their world view, they give up. Unable to marry the data with view of the world.

If you want to change my mind, I’m open to it. Bring data and logic, not an article from NPR and quotes from Facebook executive. 

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 02:08

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You just noticed this? If half of what Bolton says is true it really is insane. Imagine if we had a good potus for the pandemic!

Milky > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 02:13

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On one of your points, at least a few others countries don’ t have to test as much because they brought their curve down. We have the most cases right? We should have the most tests then too.

I’m sure I dont have to tell you but Trump certainly didn’t set us off right by doing nothing and saying it will go away, for the first few weeks of the pandemic.

Nick Has an Exocet > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 06/19/2020 at 02:19

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I’m not convinced that this president is half as bad as a lot of people think he is. People are so spun up into hatre d that they can’t think straight. Bush Jr. was horrendous. You can trace almost every single loss of freedoms and the general feeling of a surveillance state to him and the Patriot act - which was bipartisan legislation.

If there’s anything that I’ll remember the Trump presidency for it’s that it inadvertently gave rise to cancel culture. 

Nick Has an Exocet > Milky 06/19/2020 at 02:26

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That’s somewhat logical, though I think we don’t have enough data right now to support that hypothesis. We do have the most cases - we also made huge mistakes (except Florida) in sending infected patients back into nursing homes before they were non-infectious.

To some degree (though not fully), I give Trump and Fauci a similar pass during the first few weeks. You can only act on the data that you have and the data that we had from China and the WHO was shotty and politically scrubbed in the case of China. I do think Trump got played a little there by the Chinese and he should have been more critical of what he was being told by Xi Jinping (who was selling a giant load of garbage).

NKato > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 02:36

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The triangle image was an extremely unfortunate choice of emphasis for the campaign. Instead of an abstract shape, it should’ve had text pointing to the link below it.

To be frank, I am not sure of the correlation being intentional or accidental. Given how so many incidents involving MAGA, th e campaign, or Trump himself have occurred in these short four years, and that many of them occur out of sheer stupidity or ignorance, I’m leaning towards “ignorant accident”.

What I'm more bothered by is his willingness to vilify a lifetime peace activist as an antifa agent of chaos. That man is owed an apology. 

CompactLuxuryFan > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 02:38

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A downward arrow? “ Let’s make the picture for this ad this red triangle” (not arrow, for which the emoji is this )?   How is that Occam’s Razor? Even the Trump campaign isn’t saying it’s an arrow. Far likelier that it is actually a dog whistle. It’s not like Trump himself is making his Facebook ads. Brad Parcale types would definitely come up with this and do it. It’s worked brilliantly as a possible distraction .

SmugAardvark > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 02:42

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Right off the bat, I’m not here to change your mind. I assume you’ve given enough thought to the matter to come to your own conclusions.

I can’t speak to what your facebook friends are talking about, but to say the red triangle is just an iOS emoji and nothing more is a bit of a stretch for me. Neither of the two other versions of the same post had anything like a down-pointed arrow of any sort.

As for the associated text, it could easily be stated that it is a dog whistle for the rural and suburban far-right. I’ve had visitors ask me at work if it was safe to even approach the city from the airport. It’s hard not to laugh, because downtown has been more or less a ghost town apart from the first couple nights of protests, especially at night. But the text makes it sound like every city in the US is an active war zone.

But more to your point, everything now seems to be about identity politics on a grander and strictly partisan scale, bordering on identitarianism . Everyone just makes vast assumptions about everyone else by simply boiling it down to, “Are you a Republican or a Democrat?”, as if that could possibly tell you everything you could ever want to know about them.

As far as testing goes, sure, we have tested more people, but let’s not pretend the testing has been exemplary, nor has the president’s statements been entirely (or even remotely) factual in several cases.

It’s bickering like I’m seeing among your group of friends that makes me glad I gave up social media awhile back.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 02:59

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So, 2 things, and I want to keep this to the point so forgive me for not pontificating further than just a few sentences on each.

1) If what was meant was an arrow to a link, why not use the arrow emoji? Why use an upside down red triangle? This is the same administration that is going on record as saying that anti-fas cist individuals are terrorists and people who protest illegal conditions for detentions of immigrants are also fair grounds for attack. Consider, as well, that an office of that stature literally hires dozens of people to make and send messages of that sort. That’s all they do. This wasn’t made by someone on 5 minutes’ time and with MS paint, it was made by people hired by the president or his representatives who, as we have seen time and again, favor an extreme right wing, Executive-centric government.

Using your own claim of O ccam’s razor says that they should;ve used an arrow, if they needed to use something at all, but they didn’t. The red triangle was chosen. I would not be surprised if we are near the point to where you need to wear a badge to “prove” your loyalty to trump, or that you are given a badge you must wear in public if you are not loyal. Seems extreme, but hey I never thought we’d be anywhere near here by this point so who’s to say we can’t sink further?

2) Read that quote again. It is a rambling, incoherent mess of a quote to say a simple fact - we have a lot of cases of Co vid-19 and we have ore than we thought we would because we underestimated it. Here’s the problem - we aren’t seeing the decreases that other countries saw. Consider how every country saw their cases per day drop precipitously in the past month whereas we are actually maintaining a similar % positive rate as we were in the previous month. We’re behind. And judging by the numbers, we won’t get better any time soon as people insist on reopening and going out without masks or distance. How many people caught it form just a few church services in WV?

This isn’t opinion, here’s a graph of the past 14 days from arou nd the world

How the hell can we say we’re addressing an issue when we’ve not only not flattened our curve but actively begun increasing it?

Nick Has an Exocet > SmugAardvark 06/19/2020 at 03:08

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Well, we can cross one off the friends list. One of those people unfriended me. I have never, and will never, unfriend over politics. Unfortunately, social media promotes echo chambers.

I work in marketing and have done enough campaigns to recognize that they are using tools to try different combinations of ad copy, symbols, images, and CTAs to get people to click. Driving clicks is all this about. Hell, someone is probably being paid by the click here. I just find it hard to believe some grand conspiracy being carried out here. It’s just far too unlikely when all the facts are on the table.

I agree on testing. In fact, Richmond California has had only 60 cases because we have the lowest testing and poorest residents. But my expectations are not that high.

Nick Has an Exocet > CompactLuxuryFan 06/19/2020 at 03:10

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Yeah but that’s not red. Red and yellow gets clicks. Look at the other ad designs.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 03:11

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“People are so spun up into hatred that they can’t think straight. Bush Jr. was horrendous. You can trace almost every single loss of freedoms and the general feeling of a surveillance state to him and the Patriot act - which was bipartisan legislation.”

You know, if you’re handed an axe mid-way through someone else cutting down a tree......you can also decide to stop cutting down the tree right? THis is a president who has consolidated immense power into his branch so to claim that any loss of rights is someone else’s fault is like saying, while the axe is in your hand, you only chopped down a tree because someone else started it.  

Nick Has an Exocet > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/19/2020 at 03:17

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They are using marketing campaign software that tries different combinations of ad copy and images. Bright colors like red and yellow get your attention. I sign up for all the candidates text messages. The Trump messages come in ALL CAPS. That graphic is on point for them. It was also probably made by an agency getting paid by the click.

That chart is very misleading. The bars are not scaled for population.

Nick Has an Exocet > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/19/2020 at 03:20

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What consolidation are you talking about? I see a lot of protection of states rights.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 03:27

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A) they should be professionals who know better than to do that. I wouldn’t accidentally drop a swastika in a presentation about a new product and go “Oh, it means good luck!” And before you ask, yes, I was taught that colored triangles were used to mark deviants in the nazi  regime. Moreso the yellow and pink ones, but still, not a good symbol to throw around.

B) it is corrected in the sense that you can see what others are in relation to population since you can Google population count and do the basic math which says the UK should’ve had 5k cases yesterday and Japan have 10k if they had similar rates of infection.....but they don’t.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 03:29

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Lol, are we reading the same tweets? How often has he gone off about how he'd overstep a governor or mayor's decision he doesn't like? And yes, we are in the "Twitter is a policymaker" era now. 

SmugAardvark > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 03:46

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T o be fair, I’m not going to claim that the triangle is part of some nefarious plot. That seems a little out there for me too. But at the same time, I have a hard time believing that no one at any step of the process saw the potential connotations there. It seems more likely that someone saw it and just figured, “Eh, no big deal.”

To me, to be completely innocuous, a red octagon would have been a better choice. But of course, I don’t work in marketing, psychology, or any other field that makes sense of these things , so that’s more of a guess.

Sovande > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 06:32

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Or they’re using Nazi imagery. 

Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 06:32

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A red triangle? 0.O

They’re all over our country!

I just know there’s going to be some idiots that are going to be physically woke and stir up shit about this. I t’ll get covered on the CBC. Everything that happens to the S outh our media trie s to piggyback to the point of it being ridiculous.

Sovande > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 06:36

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So the legislation was bipartisan, but Bush was to blame? 

haveacarortwoorthree2 > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/19/2020 at 08:05

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Everyone knows a swastika is Nazi. Until this post, I never understood that people viewed all uses of upside down triangles as off limits. I guess whomever put the upside down triangle as an emoji is racist. I guess FB is racist because I can create a post right now on FB and one of the symbol options is an upside down red triangle. Apple as well. Don’t forget all those upside down triangle signs on the road - sure, I know that they say “yield,” but we really know what they mean! 

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 08:08

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So. In summary. America is mildly but politically insane?

nerd_racing > NKato 06/19/2020 at 08:16

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Hi Frank. 

Speed > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 08:29

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What if it was an intentional move by an irritated intern who figured they would stir the pot a little? I also work in marketing and advertisement. I’ve lost count of the times I’ve seen things snuck into advertisements and promotional materials to see if anyone would notice. If that’s the case, this was a ballsy move, but creative types can get pretty ridiculous.

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 08:35

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You can debate his questionable use of a red triangle all you want, but the dumbass has a copy of My New Order in his nightstand. He’s called white supremacists very fine people. He’s supported mass caging of people in multiple countries. He’s told non white american citizens to go back to where they came from. He’s put other white supremacists in positions of power as much as possible.

At best, he WANTS to be a nazi, and people who choose to overlook that behavior are part of the problem.

But yeah tell me how the red triangle is JUST  an arrow...sure 

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/19/2020 at 09:20

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Tweets aren’t legislation or policymaking. They’re bluster. Personally I’ve been pleasantly surprised with quite a few (definitely not all) of his decisions. If he’d turn off his mouth (and fingers) once in a while he’d sleepwalk to a second term IMO. For better or for worse.

And full disclosure, (a) I’m not American, (b) I didn’t want him in 2016, (c) on a personal level still don’t like him. But I’m feeling a lot more calm about the the 2020 electoral consequences of our neighbour to the south than I was four years ago.

s hr ug emoji

My bird IS the word > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 10:06

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Psychology is magical, isn’t it? Me team good, you team bad. It's almost funny how technology and society have outpaced evolution.

BigBlock440 > SmugAardvark 06/19/2020 at 10:06

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Seeing those 3 side by side, I’m seeing slow.down.stop. People are terrible at history these days, ignorance of potential associations is a much more likely explanation. Even though I’ve been accused of being a racist Nazi right-winger, literally every single “white supremacist ” symbol I have learned about in the past few years has come from the left. Just like the hispanic guy that got fired because apparently cracking your knuckles at a stoplight is a white supremacist gesture.  Someone looking at spreadsheets all day is going to associate that red triangle with down, the opposite of the green up triangle, and not something that happened 80 years ago that was probably not ever taught in school.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/19/2020 at 10:16

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Our confirmed case numbers here have risen dramatically here in the past week or so. I agree it’s not a good look, but the true meaningful metrics to watch are hospitalizations (and deaths).

Cases has never been a good guide for this virus, because there are so many who have it and have had it that never had symptoms, and the testing rate has been so variable over time. 

CompactLuxuryFan > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 11:37

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Are those designs from before or after it got pulled? The art style isn’t the same. And the triangle isn’t just the emoji, either. I still think a dog whistle is more likely. Do you think there hasn’t been any dog whistling by the Trump camp at all?

Nick Has an Exocet > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/19/2020 at 11:46

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Serious question: did you know that an upside down triangle was a Nazi symbol before this week? I sure as hell didn’t and I had a pretty decent education. In fact, the only association I had was the upside down purple triangle signifying a gay Teletubby.

I think you’re really stretching to make that chart fit a narrative. Imagine if we had less cases and Trump suggested that we didn’t need much testing because we had less cases. Would you still believe in your hypothesis? Like I said before, I've not seen any data that says less testing is better.

Nick Has an Exocet > CompactLuxuryFan 06/19/2020 at 11:48

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Before. They were part of the same campaign (which uses all 3 ads and the Facebook algorithm to determine which to show).

Nick Has an Exocet > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/19/2020 at 11:52

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... You’re citing Twitter as a measure of law making ability? Can I introduce you to the people in my post?

Nick Has an Exocet > Sovande 06/19/2020 at 11:53

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He signed it into law. You're aware that's how it works, right?

Nick Has an Exocet > Speed 06/19/2020 at 11:56

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Yeah, that seems far more likely than some deliberate attempt to get the KKK onboard.

Nick Has an Exocet > Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com 06/19/2020 at 11:57

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Canada tire denies the Holocaust. News at 11.

MrSnrub > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 12:08

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Setting aside entirely the civil rights minefield of declaring an entity as nebulous and questionably existent as “Antifa” a terrorist org, the red arrow post was absolutely intentional. You posted a list of emojis but notice how the symbol in the Facebook post is not the same thing as the emoji? Like how it’s solid red instead of a gradient and also has a black outline? So it doesn’t look like someone simply used an iOS emoji in the post, does it?

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/classification-system-in-nazi-concentration-camps

Of course Trump didn’t write the Facebook post, some edgelord intern probably did, but it demonstrates the type of people he attracts. Just like setting the Tulsa rally originally on the anniversary of the race riots - I would be shocked if Trump understood the historical context, but whoever scheduled the rally certainly did.

Of course, if you think the protesters are Soros plants I’m not exactly expecting an “unbiased” or “fact-based” view regarding anti-semitic behavior in the first place.

Nick Has an Exocet > MrSnrub 06/19/2020 at 12:46

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The gradient wasn’t put on the IOS version to make it okay, it was put there because that’s how IOS does ALL of their icons. Depending on which phone you have, it may not have a gradient. 

Did you know about this symbolism before this week? I am betting that most of the public did not.

MrSnrub > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 13:59

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The gradient wasn’t put on the IOS version to make it okay, it was put there because that’s how IOS does ALL of their icons. Depending on which phone you have, it may not have a gradient.

My point is that they weren’t using an iOS emoji. It’s obviously coming from somewhere else.

I made the Nazi connection as s oon as I saw it, and so did plenty of others . Just because many people don’t understand the meaning doesn’t make it meaningless - like the OK symbol for white supremacy, it’s meant as a signal to an in-group with just enough plausible deniability to look innocent to those outside who don’t know better .

Sovande > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 14:08

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I am aware of how it works, and I am aware, after re-reading it,  of how dumb my comment was. I suppose my point, such that it was, is that both sides of Congress supported the bill he signed into law. It’s not as though Bush one day announced the Patriot Act and that was that.  

I’m glad someone supports Trump (not implying you do) . It provides a measuring stick against which decency can be measured.

Nick Has an Exocet > MrSnrub 06/19/2020 at 14:39

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Yeah, it did come from somewhere else, it’s clipart. Just like the other 2 images.

https://www.clipart.email/download/7134470.html

You’re waste deep in conspiracy theory here.

Nick Has an Exocet > Sovande 06/19/2020 at 14:43

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Yeah, I’m definitely not a Trump supporter. I just hate how people twist themselves into pretzels trying to back up conspiracy theories and intentionally misleading headlines. They has done enough douchebaggy things. Making additional ones up & trying to defend it just ruins the credibility of the people fighting it and polarizes his base.

I am aware of how it works, and I am aware, after re-reading it, of how dumb my comment was.

This made my day. <3 You can comment on my posts any time you want. Appreciate the transparency. 

MrSnrub > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 15:21

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I t was just some racist intern who did it and if anyone had to approve it, they let it go. No conspiracy necessary

DC3 LS, Fuck Hyundai, now and forever > Nick Has an Exocet 06/19/2020 at 15:44

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Semi related, but just wanted to mention how hilarious twitter’s “fact check” thing is.

https://twitter.com/i/events/1273790055513903104

Edit: link to the orginal tweet. Glad tweeter is spotting these deceptive videos for us! /s

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themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Nick Has an Exocet 06/20/2020 at 03:27

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While I haven’t had the ene rgy or time today to respond to other discourse toay, I am making it a point to respond to your comment about the triangles because it does actually frighten me that you didn’t know that. I remember very distinctly going to a holocaust memorial museum when I was in eighth grade. It was an all day affair too, since it was a bit away from our district.

They had actual uniforms worn by prisoners who were in those camps. Some of them recovered posthumously. They had various triangles sewn into them to indicate to guards why they were there. Each color meant something different. This is in addition to the fact that at the time, Jewish individuals who weren’t yet imprisoned and were living “freely” were required to wear a yellow star of david on th ei r cl othes when out in public so they could be more easily identified when in public during the regime.

I was kinda of dismissive last night, but I read your comment and I felt lost for words about this. I still don’t exactly know what to say. It was something drilled into us early on that that was literally a symbol used to mark people who were enemies of the state, while in prisons meant to execute their inhabitants. I can see it being more of a footnote in some districts rather than others but still....

I’ve been kicking around my response to this on and off today since I still dont know how to best respond to it. I don’t think education about the topic was a matter of “quality” of school district or upbringing, and I am mildly certain that the nearest major city having a polish district so large it became its own suburb influenced my local districts, but it is worth your time to dig into history a bit. I highly recommend reading up a bit further on this, and visiting a local memorial/museum if you can. I don’t think you’re in SE Michigan, but a quick google search returned the one I went to. I’m sure the exhibits have changed a bit, but this is the same one - https://goo.gl/maps/UWVcQxqSa2TmG11Q8

I think part of my unease is that it shows, li ke you mentioned, the education gap in history. Because I saw that ad with the big red triangle and thought “Th at seems unsettlingly odd.....” and full disclosure, while I remembered that yellow was for jews, pink was for homosexuals/sexual deviants, and that other colors were used, I had to look it up to remember that red was for political dissidents. And this all happened well under 100 years ago. My grandparents served in WWII. There are some people on here who probably have parents who served. This isn’t like trying to uncover a fossil, this is pretty recent history.